“One of the most sincere forms of respect is actually listening to what another has to say.” – Bryant H. McGill
Thank you for taking time to complete our setting survey in April. It means a lot to us. Feedback is critical to our continued success. We will strive to keep responding to your feedback for each monthly set cycle.
We wanted to respond to a few trends we found in the responses. We want to share what we are aiming to achieve this year and future setting program – and in some cases stuff we can’t pull off. Some decisions in what we do are financial, and some are specific to our space, but we want to let you know where we stand.
I will be heading to Salt Lake City in a few weeks to see what is new in the industry and to test drive new products and gadgets to implement in the facility. More on that next month when I return.
RESPONSES: from the April survey…
More draws and lead routes please. Yes, we are working on this. Areas of Orange Oswald are too close to the inside wall of the building so they don’t have draws on them. We also removed the draws on most of the auto-belay devices because kiddos were getting their hands/fingers stuck in them.
Most of the top rope routes end up feeling like a long boulder problem instead of a sport route. We have shared this with the setters.
I think the Boulder routes are very difficult compared to the other gyms I’ve been to. Especially for people under 5’3. Top rope routes are harder but I like that they’re a little more challenging. It would help to get a short setter or a female setter because it’s disheartening for kids and small people to not be able to do a V1 after years of climbing. Overall, I love River Rock but I would LOVE to see a competitive youth team! Also love Luke! Our grading has always been stiff. As long as it is consistent that is what we are after. Reach is something our routesetters are constantly being reminded of. Every move in a route should measure out to ensure they do not exceed the gym maximum reach standard: 54” hand to foot and 33” hand to hand for kids. We would love to have more female setters, trust us – if anyone has interest, let us know! We tried and failed to field a team this last season. We will try again in the fall, but need at least 8 kids to make it viable. We like Luke, too. He will be leaving us after the summer. Boo.
I enjoy the routes that are set and think they are well thought out with a nice flow. My only complaint is the walls are bare, there appears to be room for a lot more routes to be set to give more options for routes to climb. Also, I believe “reachy” sometimes gets equated with difficult when setting intermediate to harder grade routes which puts shorter climbers at an unfair disadvantage. A few shorter (5’9” and below with neutral or negative ape index) route setters or beta testers could help make sure routes aren’t just set for tall climbers. See the above on how far reach should measure out. You are right, reach should not make a route harder. We reduced our concentration of routes by about 20% because we had a lot of feedback about too much in each set. We invite you to give us specific details about routes (name, location) so we can pass that on to the individual setter.
Please fill open spaces in walls. Most of the routes and grades are fairly on point, however it seems that as the grades go up, the holds get smaller but the moves are still pretty straightforward. I would like to see more technical climbs, with good positive holds so I can work on getting better at climbing instead of just worrying about finger strength. In both areas, but especially the boulders, there seems to be a lot of space where more routes can go. Compared to the several other gyms in VA, NC, & NJ that I have been to, River Rock is wasting tons of wall space every new setting. I personally feel that additional moderate routes should be added (v1-4) to give the vast majority of your membership more climbing options. Again, please fill up the walls completely like your competitors do. I have also noticed that some of the general staff don’t seem too outgoing and personable. Compared to when I first started at River Rock, staff is not nearly as talkative or approachable. Workers used to mingle and talk to members as they were climbing, it seems that now they are either not interested in that or that they were told not to. Please fill the walls up with routes so I can no longer see the giant gaps of wall where routes should be. See the above for answer on density. We will review again, but in moving to monochromatic setting also starts to limit density as well. We also have a quotient for breakdown of difficulty on each set based on the average climbing ability in the facility. As far as our staff not being talkative or approachable… we love our staff and if you ever have a question, comment, or concern – just ask us. We have not instructed our staff to not mingle and talk. I have to say since July of 2020 we have hired a lot of new staff and are continually working to provide the best possible customer service.
I personally enjoy a lot of really big/good holds and really balance focused moves. My current favorite rope route is the yellow 5.9 in the cove on the right. More routes like that would make me happy. My current favorite boulder route was that club route that just got taken down that looked like a caterpillar in the mushroom roof, I think it was pink or red. I also like the gray V3 that goes across the whole slab wall. Thanks for the feedback.
Stop setting by the color of the hold, since your taping anyway don’t make it a waste of tape. That’s the point of tape, it doesn’t restrict the setters to a more limited supply of holds, and allows for more routes and freedom of setting. Witch is what you would want since it is after all a climbing gym, and it would offer a better service to your regular core customers who know how to rock climb. We have done both. Mixed holds using tape and set monochromatic; overwhelmingly feedback was to stick with the tape and set using one color. We will follow feedback and review again down the road.
I do miss having the single grade system for top rope and Boulder section. I think having the v2/v3 lumped together for example we are missing having the experience of completing a grade and know what we accomplished. Also top roo the difference between a 10a vs 10d is a pretty big gap which I feel like can be slightly misleading and frustrating. The setters work is amazing but I would like to know what I have accomplished and what to strive for with more specific grades like they used to. We have had just as many folks say they appreciate the new tagging in the bouldering area. Keep giving us feedback and be specific to the route and location. We are looking into a route specific app for feedback that will go directly to the setter of that route. More on that next month.
1) more feet for top rope routes. Adding a few will not change the overall grade of a route. 2) make the first move of a top rope route easy enough so that people don’t fall on the ground. 3) do not set routes of similar colors next to each other – for instance the newest TR set has pink and red right next to each other, which will turn into 2 pinks with chalk. 4) hire a female setter. 5) consider people of all heights 6) more frequent TR sets. 7) lower the first quick draw so that routes are actually leadable. Most first clips are high enough I don’t feel safe doing them without a stick clip. You are correct. See the response about reach in the gym and distance from foot to hand – it should always measure out and we stress that to the setters. We agree on color and proximity – we have made the setters aware to be more careful on color of holds and location to other routes. Our bolts were placed by the engineers that designed and manufactured our walls – we left that up to them.
I’d like to see the autobelay routes reset more often. It would also be nice to have the autobelays move around some more. I love the routes in the cove. We aim to have the whole gym reset in three months and throw in some new bonus problems from time to time. Does it happen as quickly as we would like? No, it doesn’t and we are trying our best with our current setting crew. We need about five more setters – preferably more females on the team, especially on the roped sets!! We will set the second half of the Cove next week!
I felt the Boulder grades were pretty on par before the last set. A lot of the last set was pushed up like 2 or 3 more numbers than they actually are. We have passed this on to the routes setters.
If we could please go back to letting the setters give it an actual grade and not the gap grades. I trust their opinion. We will review this again.
Contrasting color routes would be helpful (example a blue route set near a red route) — currently having red routes next to hot pink routes next to orange routes makes it really difficult to see which hold is for which, especially from above and when they’ve been really chalked up. Setting contrasting color routes near each other would be helpful. We hear you. We have told the crew to be more aware of this. Thanks.
The rope section does not have enough mid-tier routes (5.8-5.10) and too many routes about 5.11. Also, a climber’s height should be considered more in setting. Often length of moves for grade feel large and make routes harder. We strive to have a broad spectrum at each of the 8 auto-belay stations. Each set should be following a prescribed bell curve with the majority falling to under 5.11 in the roped sections – we will review again. See our reach measurements above – that should be regardless of grade.
More mid grade routes. We hear you. Have passed this along to the setting team and will review our quotient.
The survey for the last set of the Slab wall and the first half of the Cove are live – if you have a moment to give us your feedback specific to those sets, we would appreciate it. SLAB: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/7RFWTM2 COVE: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ZNRYXXL
That’s it. We thank you for supporting the River Rock. If you ever have a question or comment feel free to contact me.
-Jared
Jared Rigby, General Manager
jared@riverrockclimbing.com